I'm not qualified to answer so other responses will be more useful but if you radius before gluing, you're giving yourself a slightly more complex clamping operation.
I glued first on my first two and I'll do the same on my third.
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| Author: | Steven Bollman [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fret first or later? |
I've seen competing approaches to the sequence if events. Is there a better approach. I know best is usually arguable. So far I've got my neck glued up, roughly shaped, truss rod ready to glue in with wood filler strip to go on top of it, fret slots cut and FB tapered. The question is: do I glue on the FB THEN radius it? Radius it first, fret it then glue it on the neck? I need guidance, please!!! Thx! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
You can do either, once you decide what will work for you. Personally, I radius and fret after the whole neck is attached to the body. This removes any sna surface discrepancies that can happen with glue up and clamping... |
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| Author: | Nick Royle [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
I'm not qualified to answer so other responses will be more useful but if you radius before gluing, you're giving yourself a slightly more complex clamping operation. I glued first on my first two and I'll do the same on my third.
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| Author: | Quine [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
I've tried both ways. These days I like to radius, bind, fret then glue it on the neck. Works better for me to tap in the frets while I have the board flat on my bench for support. And I can file and dress the ends without risking hitting something else with the file. Clamping the fretboard to the neck is harder but I have some cauls to help. |
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| Author: | Steven Bollman [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
Quine wrote: I've tried both ways. These days I like to radius, bind, fret then glue it on the neck. Works better for me to tap in the frets while I have the board flat on my bench for support. And I can file and dress the ends without risking hitting something else with the file. Clamping the fretboard to the neck is harder but I have some cauls to help. Thanks everyone! Quine, I think I like your approach. It seems like less banging on the guitar to get the frets on and less potential for aggressive tool on delicate wood. After I glue up a tapered, radiused, fretted fretboard I can still do a final shaping of the neck. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
meddlingfool wrote: You can do either, once you decide what will work for you. Personally, I radius and fret after the whole neck is attached to the body. This removes any sna surface discrepancies that can happen with glue up and clamping... This is the way I do it and for the same reasons. For one's first guitar I would recommend that this is the way to go.............!! Tom |
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| Author: | Steven Bollman [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
Thx, Tom. So, now I notice another potential issue. Don't I want to dry fit the neck joint into the assembled soundbox (neck block) BEFORE I attach the fingerboard? Because I'm likely to have some fitting/fine tuning of the neck joint contact point with the side? Seems it would be more difficult with the fingerboard attached to the neck. |
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| Author: | Goodin [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
I like fretting before gluing up, you just have to make sure all surfaces are flat and coplanar, and you use a flat and stable clamp caul and even clamp pressure. Here's what I do...thickness sand fretboard to get it flat, cut frets to about 1/8" deep, taper fretboard, glue up binding, drum sand again to about .010"-.015" above final thickess, radius fretboard with a radius sanding block, I use 16" (making sure not to sand the sides too much, make a jig), press in frets on the drill press, use rocker to make sure all frets seat level to each other, leave out fret 1 and 11, cut off fret ends, Find the center lines on the neck, double check the neck/fretboard is straight to the body and the neck joint is tight and where you want it, clamp down fretboard when its positioned right, drill locating pin holes in fret slots 1 and 11, glue down, install locating pins, clamp caul and clamps. When the glue dries press in frets 1 and 11, cut off ends, bevel all fret ends. In theory, if all important surfaces (top of neck, both sides of fretboard, top of frets) are dead flat and coplanar, you shouldn't have to do any fret leveling. Oh, and this way, you get to press in frets instead of hammering them in like a barbarian. 
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
I have always leveled and fretted as the last step before finish. I do it with the double tenon neck bolted onto the body just the way it will be in real life. That makes the most sense to me but some great builders do just fine fretting before gluing the board. If you fret after finish consider using a bound fretboard. Easier to avoid dinging up the finish. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
I radius and fret as a last step too. I find plenty of distortion when the fingerboard is glued in, and when the neck is glued in. There are ways to avoid them but I really think doing level/radius/fret as a last step eliminates any variable. |
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| Author: | cbrviking [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
I'm no expert but I use a pre-slotted board, glue to the neck, then fret it. That way I can use the double-action truss rod to get the board flat before I fret. Then I carve the back of the neck with the board already on. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
It's a lot easier to glue the fretboard on to a neck blank too. If you rough out the shape as you mentioned it's going to just be a litte bit more difficult to get good clamping pressure. My method is to fret and level after setting the neck but before finishing. It just seems to be the best method for correcting any mistakes like a slight hump at the neck body joint and any dings made in the fret job. Plus the finish makes the fret ends just look... well, finished. |
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| Author: | cbrviking [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
Here's a neck fretted but the back isn't carved. Attachment: Guitar Build 005.jpg
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
Note that it is a bolt on Fender style electric guitar neck where the fingerboard runs the whole length of the neck and not hang off to the body like acoustic guitars, so the risk of fingerboard surface distortion is nonexistent. |
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| Author: | cbrviking [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
True-that. |
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| Author: | Mike Mahar [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
I cut my fret slots in a square fret board. I then taper the fret board. I usually bind my fret boards so I taper them smaller and then glue on the binding. The board is not radiused. I clamp the fret board onto the uncarved neck and drill two tiny holes through 1st and 9th fret slots for indexing pins. These pins are to keep the fret board from sliding around during gluing and will stay in the fret board. Next, I glue the fret board on to the neck. Note that the neck is uncarved and it is wider than the fret board by some amount. It is usually still square. Once the glue is dry I take the neck over to the bandsaw and trim the sides to within about an 1/8th of an inch of the fret board. The closer you get to the fret board the easier it is to route it flush. I then set up the router table with a pattern flowing flush cut bit. The bearing for this bit is on the base of the bit near the shaft and will run along the fretboard. I route the neck flush with the fret board. I stick a guide onto the face plate so that the bit doesn't dig in as I reach the end of the fret board at the nut. This is pretty safe even though you have over 1 inch of spinning bit stick up out of the router table. You hold on to the neck at the base of the heel and at the top of the face plate and your has are always quite a distance away from the bit. I couldn't do any of this if the fret board were radiused. I then radius the fret board. It do it now because I want to clamp the neck into a vise and that is easier if the neck isn't carved. Then comes carving. Then I hammer in the frets. I have a couple of wooden anvils that I place under the neck and fretboard extension while hammering in the frets. I do my first level and dress of the frets and then tape the fret board and frets for finishing. The final fret leveling is done after the guitar is finished and set up with strings. I use 320 stick on sand paper on a 6 inch piece of 3/32 aluminum right angle. It slips under the strings and does a great job of leveling. I remove the strings and polish. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
I flush rout the overhang with a template bit on the router table with a radiused board. I've done it for a long time. I lay down layers of brown binding tape along the edges of the fretboard building up the thickness until the board sits level on the router table. I double stick tape a surrogate nut in place that flares out a little at the edge to prevent an accident there. |
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| Author: | Steven Bollman [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
Thank you everyone, for the amazing range of approaches, techniques, and tips! Really useful! |
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| Author: | Mike Mahar [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
Todd Stock wrote: Mike Mahar wrote: I couldn't do any of this if the fret board were radiused. I know it might take a radiused carrier board double stuck the the FB (1/4" ply works) to do it safely, but what else cannot be done with the board radiused? Perhaps I over stated things a bit. But, if the fret board was radiused, I would have to make a clamping caul for gluing the board onto the neck and then some sort of carrier board or the tape method described by Terence to flush trim the neck on the router table. That's two steps that I avoid by simply radiusing the board later. On the down side, radiusing the board on the neck has some problems. The body overhang tends to bend down and doesn't sand well. I have a wooden anvil that I attach to the heel that I use for hammering in frets and that helps keep the fret board flat while radiusing. Securing a carved neck for both radiusing and hammering in frets is also a bit of a problem. In the world of construction techniques, people will gravitate toward what works best. Example: go bar decks, heating blankets, radiused dishes. When there is a lot of variety, it is usually because of two very different reasons.
All of the approaches in this thread illustrates that making a neck is in the second category. |
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| Author: | Steven Bollman [ Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fret first or later? |
Mike Mahar wrote: Todd Stock wrote: Mike Mahar wrote: I couldn't do any of this if the fret board were radiused. I know it might take a radiused carrier board double stuck the the FB (1/4" ply works) to do it safely, but what else cannot be done with the board radiused? Perhaps I over stated things a bit. But, if the fret board was radiused, I would have to make a clamping caul for gluing the board onto the neck and then some sort of carrier board or the tape method described by Terence to flush trim the neck on the router table. That's two steps that I avoid by simply radiusing the board later. On the down side, radiusing the board on the neck has some problems. The body overhang tends to bend down and doesn't sand well. I have a wooden anvil that I attach to the heel that I use for hammering in frets and that helps keep the fret board flat while radiusing. Securing a carved neck for both radiusing and hammering in frets is also a bit of a problem. In the world of construction techniques, people will gravitate toward what works best. Example: go bar decks, heating blankets, radiused dishes. When there is a lot of variety, it is usually because of two very different reasons.
All of the approaches in this thread illustrates that making a neck is in the second category. Thx, Mike. I especially like your observation/characterization of process in your last paragraph. Thanks for that. |
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